Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/02/2001 08:12 AM House EDU

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION                                                                            
          HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                                                                         
          STANDING COMMITTEE ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                         
                         April 2, 2001                                                                                          
                           8:12 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Con Bunde, Chair                                                                                                 
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Gary Stevens                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Gretchen Guess                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
EDUCATION MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Fred Dyson, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair                                                                                         
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Gary Stevens                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
Representative Kohring                                                                                                          
Representative Cissna                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 133(HES)                                                                                                 
"An Act relating  to a two-year transition  for implementation of                                                               
the   public   high   school  competency   examination   and   to                                                               
establishing  a secondary  student  competency  examination as  a                                                               
high  school   graduation  requirement;  and  providing   for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD [AND HELD IN EDU]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 94                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to initiatives  for quality schools; relating to                                                               
pupil  competency testing  and the  issuance of  secondary school                                                               
diplomas;   relating  to   certain  reports   regarding  academic                                                               
performance of schools; and providing for an effective date."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - NOT HEARD [PART OF HB 94 WAS INCORPORATED INTO HCS for                                                                   
CSSB 133, VERSION B]                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 204                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to the  Alaska  Commission  on  Postsecondary                                                               
Education and  the Alaska Student  Loan Corporation;  relating to                                                               
student  financial  aid  programs  and  the  financing  of  those                                                               
programs; establishing the Alaska  Advantage Loan Program and the                                                               
Alaska  Supplemental  Education   Loan  Program;  increasing  the                                                               
bonding  authorization of  the Alaska  Student Loan  Corporation;                                                               
providing for  liens resulting from  a default under AS  14.43 or                                                               
AS 14.44; relating to the  duties of the recorder regarding those                                                               
liens;  relating to  defaults under  the Western  Regional Higher                                                               
Education Compact; relating to  the prohibition on discrimination                                                               
regarding  programs under  AS  14.43; relating  to  fees for  the                                                               
review of  certain postsecondary institutions;  making conforming                                                               
amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING POSTPONED  [SCHEDULED IN EDU ONLY]                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 166                                                                                                              
"An  Act relating  to the  year  in which  public school  student                                                               
competency testing begins."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING CANCELED  [SCHEDULED IN EDU ONLY]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 133                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:PUBLIC SCHOOL COMPETENCY EXAM                                                                                       
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/09/01     0598       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/09/01     0598       (S)        HES, FIN                                                                                     
03/09/01     0600       (S)        HES WAIVED PUB HEARING                                                                       
                                   NOTICE, RULE 23                                                                              
03/10/01                (S)        HES AT 10:30 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                
03/10/01                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/10/01                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
03/12/01                (S)        HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
03/12/01                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/12/01                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
03/14/01                (S)        HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
03/14/01                (S)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
03/16/01                (S)        HES AT 0:00 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
03/16/01                (S)        Moved CS(HES) Out of                                                                         
                                   Committee                                                                                    
                                   MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
03/20/01     0732       (S)        HES RPT CS 5DP NEW TITLE                                                                     
03/20/01     0732       (S)        DP: GREEN, LEMAN, WILKEN,                                                                    
                                   WARD, DAVIS                                                                                  
03/20/01     0732       (S)        FN1: (EED)                                                                                   
03/26/01                (S)        FIN AT 6:00 PM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
03/26/01                (S)        Moved CS(HES) Out of                                                                         
                                   Committee                                                                                    
03/27/01     0819       (S)        FIN RPT CS(HES) 6DP 1NR                                                                      
03/27/01     0819       (S)        DP: DONLEY, KELLY, HOFFMAN,                                                                  
                                   LEMAN                                                                                        
03/27/01     0819       (S)        GREEN, OLSON; NR: WILKEN                                                                     
03/27/01     0819       (S)        FN1: (EED)                                                                                   
03/28/01     0838       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 3/28/01                                                                    
03/28/01     0840       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
03/28/01     0840       (S)        HES CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                  
03/28/01     0840       (S)        AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                 
03/28/01     0841       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                    
                                   UNAN CONSENT                                                                                 
03/28/01     0841       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
                                   133(HES) AM                                                                                  
03/28/01     0841       (S)        PASSED Y19 N- E1                                                                             
03/28/01     0841       (S)        EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS                                                                    
                                   PASSAGE                                                                                      
03/28/01     0844       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
03/28/01     0844       (S)        VERSION: CSSB 133(HES) AM                                                                    
03/28/01                (S)        RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP                                                                   
                                   203                                                                                          
03/29/01     0767       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/29/01     0767       (H)        EDU, HES, FIN                                                                                
04/02/01                (H)        EDU AT 8:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
04/02/01                (H)        HES AT 8:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                 
                                   519                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LYDA GREEN                                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 125                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:   As  chair of  the Senate  Health, Education                                                               
and  Social Services  Standing Committee,  sponsor, presented  SB
133.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
GREG MALONEY, Director                                                                                                          
Special Education                                                                                                               
Department of Education and Early Development                                                                                   
801 West 10th Street                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99501                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered question on SB 133.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE JOHNSON, Deputy Commissioner of Education                                                                                 
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Education and Early Development                                                                                   
801 West 10th Street                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on SB 133.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-20, SIDE A [House EDU tapes]                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CON  BUNDE called  the  joint  meeting between  the  House                                                               
Special Committee  on Education  and the House  Health, Education                                                               
and  Social Services  Standing Committee  to order  at 8:12  a.m.                                                               
Members  present at  the call  to  order from  the House  Special                                                               
Committee  on   Education  were  Representatives   Bunde,  Green,                                                               
Wilson,  Stevens, Joule,  and Guess.   Members  present from  the                                                               
House Health,  Education and  Social Services  Standing Committee                                                               
were Representatives Dyson, Coghill, Wilson, Stevens, and Joule.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SB 133-PUBLIC SCHOOL COMPETENCY EXAM                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[Part of proposed  CSHB 94, Version J had  been incorporated into                                                               
the proposed HCS for CSSB 133, Version B]                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  announced that the  committees would address  CS FOR                                                               
SENATE  BILL  NO.  133(HES),  "An  Act  relating  to  a  two-year                                                               
transition  for   implementation  of   the  public   high  school                                                               
competency examination  and to  establishing a  secondary student                                                               
competency examination  as a high school  graduation requirement;                                                               
and providing  for an  effective date."   [SB 133  was officially                                                               
before only the House Special Committee on Education.]                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0263                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated that he  would like the House Health,                                                               
Education and  Social Services Standing  Committee (HES)  to take                                                               
notice of  the following  areas of  ongoing discussion  [for when                                                               
that committee  officially takes  up the bill]:   whether  or not                                                               
the  diploma  that  is  a  given is  the  "diploma-plus"  or  the                                                               
"diploma-minus"; the  degree of accommodation or  modification to                                                               
the test for those with  disabilities; the alternative ways those                                                               
with disabilities can be evaluated;  what reports coming from the                                                               
tests  are required  of the  Department [of  Education and  Early                                                               
Development] (EED); and convergence of implementation dates.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0557                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LYDA  GREEN, Alaska  State  Legislature,  came forth  as                                                               
chair  of  the  Senate  Health,  Education  and  Social  Services                                                               
Standing Committee,  Sponsor of SB  133.  She stated  that Senate                                                               
HES spent over eight weeks  in hearings and gathering information                                                               
[for SB 133].   She said there were three or  four main issues to                                                               
[the Senate  HES committee's] goal.   One was to  continue giving                                                               
the exam in order to not  lose the momentum and for the students,                                                               
faculty, and  community to  go on  believing in  the idea  of the                                                               
exam.  [The  committee] thought it was important  to continue the                                                               
work of the  [EED] in retooling the exam to  the essential skills                                                               
subset.  [The  committee]  wanted  to work  on  the  addition  of                                                               
language concerning those students  with learning disabilities in                                                               
order for  Alaska to comply  with federal IDEA  [Individuals with                                                               
Disabilities Education  Act] legislation.   [The  committee] also                                                               
discussed methods for having a  waiver process.  Essential skills                                                               
language,  she said,  was used  in the  bill to  ensure that  the                                                               
skills students are expected to have mastered are focused on.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  stated that [the  committee] also noticed  that in                                                               
Alaska  state statute  there is  a  fairly weak  listing of  what                                                               
courses a  student is  required to  take.   Also, in  the listing                                                               
there is  no mention of  the degree of  those courses.   She said                                                               
there is  always going  to be an  occasion when  an extraordinary                                                               
circumstance arises;  [the committee]  has decided not  to handle                                                               
that in statute but to turn that  over to [the EED] and the State                                                               
School Board.   She  explained that  SB 133  has the  addition of                                                               
endorsements  shown on  the  transcripts and  the  diploma.   She                                                               
remarked  that she  thinks it  is a  good idea  for people  to be                                                               
rewarded for good  performance and would recommend  that there be                                                               
endorsements  of  all  sorts on  a  student's  transcript  and/or                                                               
diploma if a district chooses.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0794                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN stated  that it was also  discussed that throughout                                                               
the  last couple  of years  there have  been different  standards                                                               
used by those  giving the exam.  She stated  that [the committee]                                                               
felt it was  important that the state be given  a prepared script                                                               
so that  the test  is given  very similarly  across Alaska.   She                                                               
added that [the  committee] met regularly in order  to ensure the                                                               
test would be  defensible and fair and would  continue to require                                                               
accountability  and responsibility  on the  part of  every person                                                               
involved in the education scene.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  stated that he wanted  to take note of  the Senate's                                                               
eight weeks  of testimony as  well.   He stated,   "Should people                                                               
feel  we're moving  too rapidly  now, it's  been a  long time  in                                                               
coming."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0900                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked if this  is truly a minimal standard                                                               
- one either  passes or doesn't pass - is  there any rationale of                                                               
putting [the endorsements] on the diploma?                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  responded  that   there  have  been,  nationwide,                                                               
several  methods  by  which  students   are  getting  credit  for                                                               
accomplishments  on the  diploma.   Kenai's district,  she noted,                                                               
currently [puts  endorsements on the  diplomas].  She  added that                                                               
she thinks if a student has done well, it should be shown.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  stated that this is  a requirement expected                                                               
of  all   people  to  graduate.     He  asked  if   honor  rolls,                                                               
valedictorians, or  football scholarships  would also be  [put on                                                               
the diploma].   He said he is concerned that  [the diploma] could                                                               
get cluttered.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN replied that the test  is the only thing that would                                                               
be on  the diploma.   However, placing  good performances  on the                                                               
diploma is being encouraged strictly  if a district chooses to do                                                               
so.  She said:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     There's a  mixed message you  will receive on  the idea                                                                    
     of  those students  who function  with  the ability  to                                                                    
     take the  exit exam according to  their IEP (Individual                                                                    
     Education Plan).   We would encourage  everyone to take                                                                    
     the test  and not  have anything waived,  and certainly                                                                    
     have  all but  those students  who are  developmentally                                                                    
     disabled   and   already    qualify   for   alternative                                                                    
     assessments to take this test  and to do the very best.                                                                    
     ... It would  create less students having  to come back                                                                    
     and go  under their  IEP and  have accommodations.   We                                                                    
     would like  to see  that they  come at  first (indisc.)                                                                    
     and take the exam. ... We all respond to rewards.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1200                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN asked  whether there  is any  "wiggle" room                                                               
for the House or if the Senate is "fixed" on [CSSB 133(HES)].                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   GREEN  responded   that  she   couldn't  say   that  no                                                               
consideration would be  given to the House's input on  this.  She                                                               
added that  she thinks  the Senate's  priority is  the transcript                                                               
and that she sees no reason  why praise should be withheld on the                                                               
diploma.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE asked  if "Pass" or the actual score  would be put on                                                               
the transcript.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  answered  that  if  she  had  been  in  the  99th                                                               
percentile in  all three areas,  she would  want that to  show on                                                               
her transcript.  However, with the  way the exit exam exists, cut                                                               
scores could be different from  year to year; therefore, it would                                                               
be a pass or a fail for everyone.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1317                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DYSON suggested  that the  "present score  out of                                                               
the total  score" should  be put  on the  transcript.   He stated                                                               
that he  is concerned that  in accommodating those  students with                                                               
developmental  disabilities,  there will  be  a  huge amount  [of                                                               
accommodation].   He asked if there  is a way to  standardize the                                                               
accommodation  or  modification  for  kids who  have  FAE  (Fetal                                                               
Alcohol Effects) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN responded  that [Senate HES] had  discussed this as                                                               
well.   When  an  IEP team  works  with  a child  and  sets up  a                                                               
learning plan  there is some  sort of justification for  the plan                                                               
chosen:   what is  the child's  need that has  to be  met through                                                               
this; what is the  goal and how they are going  to get there; and                                                               
could this  child function in  a regular classroom setting.   She                                                               
stated that this satisfied her and  that [the IEP teams] would be                                                               
doing that anyway.   She said there are  well-recognized norms of                                                               
what  could  reasonably  be  expected   without  there  being  an                                                               
anomaly.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated  that it is clear that if  a child is                                                               
blind, the  test will have  to be provided  in Braille or  with a                                                               
reader.    He  asked  whether   there  needs  to  be  a  separate                                                               
accommodation  or modification  for every  child with  [ADD], for                                                               
example, or  if there could  be a general  test for all  the kids                                                               
with [ADD].                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  responded  that these  are  questions  that  [IEP                                                               
teams] answer every  day and there would be  no incorrect answer.                                                               
She stated that  she doesn't believe [the  legislature] should be                                                               
making those decisions.   She remarked that she  thinks there are                                                               
hard decisions that are made  with regard to these children every                                                               
day, knowing  full well  that some of  these children  will never                                                               
take the  exam.  A student  cannot be denied assistance  if it is                                                               
recognized on his or her IEP.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON  asked, if there  are 4,000 ADD  students in                                                               
Alaska, whether  there will be  one general way  of accommodating                                                               
their  testing or  if  there  will be  3,000  or 4,000  [separate                                                               
accommodations] in order to conform  to the federal guidelines in                                                               
IDEA.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN stated that she could not answer that.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  clarified that  there is  a huge  difference between                                                               
accommodations and modifications.  He  stated that he would share                                                               
[Representative Dyson's]  concern about having  modifications for                                                               
every  person  with  an  IEP  because  there  would  be  as  many                                                               
different tests as there were IEPs.   However, if someone has had                                                               
accommodations all through  his or her school career  while on an                                                               
IEP, then legally he or  she should be allowed that accommodation                                                               
when taking the  test.  An accommodation, he  explained, would be                                                               
one that does not change the basic structure of the test.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1770                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS remarked that  he understands that the IEP                                                               
[team]  is   a  legally  constituted  organization   that  has  a                                                               
tremendous amount  of responsibility,  authority, and power.   He                                                               
asked if  the IEP  team could  decide that  the scores  should be                                                               
lower for a special education student.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN responded  that she  would  have to  defer to  the                                                               
[EED].                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  remarked that  the IEP  process is  put in                                                               
place early on  when there is need  to help a child  learn to the                                                               
best of his or her ability.   This process, she said, is reviewed                                                               
every year.   By the  time the student  takes the exit  exam, the                                                               
schools know how that child  is handled and what modifications or                                                               
accommodations have  been taking place  all along.  She  asked if                                                               
Senator Green  is implying  that the IEP  should be  the deciding                                                               
factor for how the test will be given.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  responded  that  it  is  her  understanding  that                                                               
someone will  begin an IEP for  a child with the  hopes that less                                                               
will be required as time goes  on.  She noted that the percentage                                                               
of a  school's population  that has  IEPs decreases  [over time].                                                               
She stated that in the Senate  version of the bill everyone would                                                               
be required to take the test  except for those students who would                                                               
automatically  qualify  for  an  alternative  assessment.    It's                                                               
important  for   the  [EED],  the  school   districts,  and  [the                                                               
legislature]  to  know  whether  "we"  are  being  successful  in                                                               
teaching.  She  added that the [EED] and the  legislature need to                                                               
know  what  the performance  of  learning  disabled children  is.                                                               
According  to statistics,  there are  any number  of fairly  good                                                               
statistics  and  performances   on  behalf  of  learning-disabled                                                               
children who passed the test.   There were, however, some who did                                                               
not pass the  test and will probably never pass  the test without                                                               
some accommodation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON   asked  if  legally  there   could  be  a                                                               
differentiation of the diploma, since  the public is not supposed                                                               
to be able to tell who is in special education and who isn't.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  responded  that  it  is  her  understanding  that                                                               
because of  Alaska's constitution, the  recognition that it  is a                                                               
"special IEP diploma" is not allowed.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2055                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     It isn't as  if the House majority woke  up one morning                                                                    
     and  said, "How  can we  make life  more difficult  for                                                                    
     schools and  students?"  I  think all of us  have heard                                                                    
     that litany of concerns  from employers who aren't able                                                                    
     to employ  people with  basic skills.   And  either the                                                                    
     employer has  to provide the  remediation or  they have                                                                    
     to let the  person go.  In any case,  people are really                                                                    
     frustrated  that 46  percent  or more  of our  students                                                                    
     [who have] gone to college  are having to take remedial                                                                    
     classes, that even our  highly talented Alaska scholars                                                                    
     program   -  where   the  top   10   percent  get   the                                                                    
     scholarships -  many of those  are struggling  and some                                                                    
     are failing  because of  lack of  academic preparation.                                                                    
     I  think while  reasonable people  can disagree  on the                                                                    
     route of where  we want to go, it is  very obvious that                                                                    
     [the] status quo is probably  not something many people                                                                    
     would support.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the test  is a "living document" and that                                                               
the legislation  that created  this said  the [EED]  will provide                                                               
for a competency  test.  He remarked that it  is currently in the                                                               
process of  being adjusted and that  one of the biggest  areas of                                                               
adjustment  is the  math test.   It  was decided  that [the  math                                                               
test] did not reflect basic  competencies.  He explained that the                                                               
House is focusing  on the following:  accountability  so that the                                                               
schools and  the students could be  reasonably comfortable saying                                                               
they need  more support from  the public; changing  the effective                                                               
date from 2002  to 2004; whether there should  be reciprocity for                                                               
those who  transfer in; whether  the endorsements on  the diploma                                                               
should only be valid for two  years to reward and recognize those                                                               
who have taken  the competency test very  seriously; what waivers                                                               
might look  like; whether  or not an  appeals process  is useful;                                                               
and whether or not modifications are useful.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked if anything will  be discussed about                                                               
the portfolio.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE  responded  that [the  House  Special  Committee  on                                                               
Education] has  also focused on the  option of a portfolio  as an                                                               
alternative assessment for people with  IEPs.  He added that [the                                                               
committee] also acknowledged  that there are students  who are on                                                               
non-diploma tracks, those who  experience serious disabilities as                                                               
well as those who do not always receive a diploma.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2314                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion  to adopt the proposed HCS for                                                               
CSSB  133, version  22-LS0607\B,  Ford, 3/30/01,  as the  working                                                               
draft.  There being no objection,  the proposed HCS for CSSB 133,                                                               
Version B, was before the House Special Committee on Education.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-20, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0018                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE explained  that the difference between  Version B and                                                               
the Senate version is that  Version B reinstates a certificate of                                                               
achievement  for those  students who  are  not able  to pass  the                                                               
test.    It  includes  the   sections  the  student  passed,  the                                                               
student's  attendance record,  and  other items  that the  school                                                               
district would like to include.   He stated that this certificate                                                               
of  achievement may  be  very useful  for  a potential  employer.                                                               
Version  B discusses  that the  accommodations  provided by  IEPs                                                               
should continue and  also be used when taking  a competency test.                                                               
He  explained that  Version  B  does suggest  that  the IEP  team                                                               
should be  able to recommend that  a student not retake  the test                                                               
if this  is not in the  student's best interest.   He stated that                                                               
the law requires  a student to take the test  in tenth grade, but                                                               
it does not  say a student has to continue  taking the test until                                                               
he or she passes it.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE continued  explaining  the differences.   He  stated                                                               
that  the House  agrees  with  the Senate  that  there should  be                                                               
standard implementation  language in regard to  reciprocity.  The                                                               
House has  expanded accountability and  suggested that this  be a                                                               
required report to the legislature  rather than a report that was                                                               
simply available if the [legislature]  chose to get it.  Finally,                                                               
the implementation date, of 2004, was agreed upon.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS  stated that  he would  like to  hear from                                                               
[the EED]  concerning accommodations, specifically  about whether                                                               
or not the scores can be lowered for special-education students.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0477                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GREG   MALONEY,  Director,   Special  Education,   Department  of                                                               
Education and  Early Development,  came forth and  explained that                                                               
under federal  IDEA 97 the  goal is  to have all  kids, including                                                               
those  with disabilities,  held to  high standards.   One  of the                                                               
major  goals is  to have  all kids  participate in  all statewide                                                               
assessments.   He  remarked that  this also  encourages that  all                                                               
appropriate accommodations and modifications,  as it reads in the                                                               
federal law,  be provided to students  in order to allow  them to                                                               
demonstrate and to be held to  the highest standard possible.  In                                                               
addition, he said,  part of that is to ensure  that the districts                                                               
are   being   held    accountable   for   providing   appropriate                                                               
instructional  programming to  students with  disabilities.   The                                                               
goal now is to ensure that  students who had been excluded in the                                                               
past  are included  in  these assessments  and  for districts  to                                                               
provide for that.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Maloney  to clarify the difference                                                               
between an accommodation and a modification.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY  responded that [the EED's]  participation guidelines                                                               
discuss the  difference between  the two.   He explained  that an                                                               
accommodation  is something  that  is provided  to  a student  to                                                               
enable the student to have an  equal playing field.  For example,                                                               
a student with  a visual impairment would be  provided Braille or                                                               
some kind  of magnification device.   This changes  nothing about                                                               
the  content that  is being  measured,  but it  does provide  the                                                               
student an  opportunity to be  fairly assessed.   A modification,                                                               
he  stated,  by definition  modifies  or  changes what  is  being                                                               
tested.   For example,  having the  reading test  be read  to the                                                               
student  would  be  a modification  because  reading  ability  is                                                               
intended to be  measured by that test.  Another  example would be                                                               
providing a calculator for the math test.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.   MALONEY   clarified   that   there   are   no   categorical                                                               
accommodations.  For instance, a student  with ADD does not get a                                                               
certain set  of accommodations  that are  not available  to other                                                               
students.    The  individualized  nature of  IEP  teams  is  that                                                               
appropriate  accommodations are  determined  after assessing  the                                                               
student's  performance  disability.   He  stated  that these  are                                                               
required to  be in place  a certain length  of time prior  to the                                                               
testing so  that accommodations are  not introduced just  for the                                                               
test.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0708                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MALONEY pointed  out that  under  federal law  [the EED]  is                                                               
required  to  report  three  things  on  the  assessments:    the                                                               
participation of students with  disabilities; the graduation rate                                                               
of students  with disabilities; and  the performance  of students                                                               
with disabilities.   He added that [the EED] is  also required to                                                               
report  dropout  rates.   He  stated  that  there has  been  some                                                               
confusion about  the alternative assessments.   He explained that                                                               
the alternate assessment is a  portfolio assessment that has been                                                               
designed   and   implemented   for  students   with   significant                                                               
disabilities.  These are students  who have significant cognitive                                                               
impairments and who  are not currently being  instructed by using                                                               
an academic program  but are on more of  a functional life-skills                                                               
program.   He said  this may include  students with  autism, Down                                                               
syndrome,  or   significant  retardation  for  whom   taking  the                                                               
traditional assessment  would not be  meaningful.  He  added that                                                               
the  [the   EED]  measures  the  performance   of  students  with                                                               
disabilities  including the  participation rates  on a  statewide                                                               
level.  The goal is to  have kids with disabilities not only take                                                               
the test,  with or without  appropriate accommodations,  but also                                                               
pass the test.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS  asked if  a portfolio  specifically deals                                                               
with having  the same  knowledge of  what is  tested in  the exit                                                               
exam.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY  responded that  the portfolio is  a process,  not an                                                               
outcome.    It is  one  method  of  assessment in  which  certain                                                               
products  are  collected, held,  and  compared  to the  alternate                                                               
performance standards  that were  adopted by  the State  Board of                                                               
Education.    He  stated  that  the  collection  process  is  the                                                               
portfolio  and the  outcome  is  how that  portfolio  is used  to                                                               
evaluate what that progress is.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked  if the standards would  be the same                                                               
as in the exit exam.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0923                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE JOHNSON,  Deputy Commissioner  of Education, Office  of the                                                               
Commissioner,  Department  of  Education and  Early  Development,                                                               
responded  that the  portfolio currently  being discussed  is one                                                               
that is built on a different standard.   These are for the 1 or 2                                                               
percent of students  who are so impaired they are  unable to take                                                               
the written exams meaningfully.   He stated that [the work draft]                                                               
refers to  a different set  of students and a  different approach                                                               
to the portfolio.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  stated that the  discussion was that there  would be                                                               
another portfolio in addition to  the one that already exists for                                                               
the people who are not on  a diploma track.  This portfolio would                                                               
require that  the students achieve the  same minimum competencies                                                               
as these in the regular test.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked whether the  child who has the reading                                                               
test read to him or her would get a passing grade in reading.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MALONEY answered  that  that would  be  a modification,  and                                                               
modifications, by definition,  do not allow students  to pass the                                                               
test under  the current legislation.   He added that  [in Version                                                               
B] it would have to depend on how "portfolio" is defined.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE noted  that this was one of the  items that was asked                                                               
of  the [EED]  and  the State  Board of  Education  to give  [the                                                               
legislature] guidance.  They have  been asked to give guidance on                                                               
waivers, portfolios, and appeals processes.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1131                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DYSON  asked if  through  this  process a  person                                                               
could be given  a passing grade in reading if  he or she couldn't                                                               
read.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY responded  that one of the issues that  comes up when                                                               
working  with   students  with  disabilities   while  maintaining                                                               
standards is to also recognize  that disabilities, by definition,                                                               
change the  person's ability to respond.   He stated that  in the                                                               
Senate  version there  is  an alternative  process  to review  or                                                               
assess the students'  progress by using a  different process than                                                               
the test.   He noted  that it is important  to keep in  mind that                                                               
the instructional  program should be  based on standards.   Also,                                                               
in  the  Senate bill  there  is  the  recognition that  for  some                                                               
students the different process that  would be designed by the IEP                                                               
team would be  appropriate.  Under [Version B], there  would be a                                                               
portfolio   of  work   to  demonstrate   the  mastery   of  state                                                               
performance  standards.   He  added that  he  thinks [Version  B]                                                               
holds  students  with  disabilities   to  the  same  standard  as                                                               
students without disabilities; therefore,  the intention would be                                                               
to not penalize students unfairly for having a disability.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if he  would be correct in saying that                                                               
the [EED] wants an alternative  way of demonstrating intellectual                                                               
mastery for  the child  who can't  read.   Under the  Senate bill                                                               
that child  would get a  diploma but  would not be  recognized as                                                               
having  competency  in  reading,  while under  [Version  B]  that                                                               
person would get a certificate of achievement.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY answered that he was correct.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1286                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON  asked if  looking good  on the  report that                                                               
[the EED]  is required  to send to  the federal  government means                                                               
getting more kids with IEPs to graduate.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY responded that IDEA  97 does not necessarily speak to                                                               
graduation requirements for kids with  disabilities.  The goal is                                                               
to have the  kids held to a  high standard and to  be given every                                                               
opportunity  to demonstrate  their achievement.   He  stated that                                                               
what is important  is to have districts and  students move closer                                                               
and  closer to  being  able  to pass  the  exam  with or  without                                                               
appropriate accommodations.   He added  that he thinks  it always                                                               
looks better if  students with disabilities are  passing the test                                                               
and  graduating.   He  noted  that  historically, nationally  and                                                               
statewide, there are low graduation  rates and high dropout rates                                                               
for kids  with disabilities  that are  proportionally way  out of                                                               
"whack"  compared  to  rates for  students  receiving  a  regular                                                               
education.    At the  same  time,  the  goal  is to  ensure  that                                                               
students  with   disabilities  are  receiving   an  appropriately                                                               
standards-based  curriculum and  have every  opportunity to  pass                                                               
the test.   He added that it  is an appropriate role  for the IEP                                                               
team,  under federal  law, to  look  at not  only an  appropriate                                                               
assessment process but also what  the outcomes of that assessment                                                               
could be.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DYSON  stated  that  he  is  concerned  with  not                                                               
wanting to  pressure [the  EED] into doing  anything but  what is                                                               
best for the kids.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY responded that  he appreciates Representative Dyson's                                                               
concern.   He stressed  that [the  EED's] goal  is accountability                                                               
and that  the EED wants  all kids to participate  meaningfully in                                                               
the   assessments.     Under  both   bill  versions,   kids  with                                                               
disabilities would be  expected to take the exam.   The question,                                                               
he said,  is for those  who don't  pass: what are  the processes,                                                               
implications, and consequences going to be?                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON expressed that he  doesn't care what is on a                                                               
piece  of paper.    He said  he is  interested  in the  students'                                                               
getting the help they need, whether or not they pass the test.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1494                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  asked if under the  Senate bill, since the  IEP team                                                               
would set  the competency test  for the students, there  would be                                                               
as  many variations  of  the  competency test  as  there are  IEP                                                               
teams.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MALONEY  answered  that  is not  his  understanding  of  the                                                               
process.  Under  the Senate bill, once the student  has taken the                                                               
test  and  has  not  passed,  the IEP  team  would  determine  an                                                               
alternative  process for  examining student  progress; it  may be                                                               
taking the test with modifications.   The IEP team, he explained,                                                               
could also consider  having the student retake the  test, with or                                                               
without accommodations.   He stressed  that [the EED's]  focus is                                                               
on the kids and their success.   He added that [the EED] also has                                                               
to look at what happens to the kids as they leave school.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  stated that,  unfortunately, [students]  are leaving                                                               
school now  in the  same condition  as if  they didn't  receive a                                                               
diploma because they are getting  a diploma that doesn't indicate                                                               
ability  in these  basic areas.   He  remarked that  there is  no                                                               
problem if  a student takes the  test and passes.   However, if a                                                               
student with  an IEP takes the  test and fails, the  IEP team has                                                               
the opportunity  to modify  the test  in an  attempt to  help the                                                               
student  pass.   He stated  that there  indeed could  be as  many                                                               
competency  tests  as   the  IEP  team  chooses   to  create  for                                                               
individual students who failed.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY replied that is one  of the options an IEP team could                                                               
choose.   Another option could  be the portfolio assessment.   He                                                               
stated that he  thinks one of the differences comes  back to what                                                               
the  external standard  a  student  is compared  to.   Under  the                                                               
Senate  bill, the  IEP team  would have  the authority,  which is                                                               
consistent  with federal  law,  to determine  not  only what  the                                                               
alternative  process could  be  but also  what  the standard  for                                                               
evaluation  could be.   If  there are  IEP goals  and objectives,                                                               
[the  EED's]  focus  is  for  those objectives  to  be  based  on                                                               
standards.    If   a  student  does  not   pass  the  tenth-grade                                                               
competency  exam, the  IEP  team looks  at  that information  and                                                               
determines  whether continuing  to  take  the regular  assessment                                                               
with  or  without accommodations  is  appropriate  or whether  an                                                               
alternative   process  that   could  include   modifications  [is                                                               
appropriate].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  remarked that  he understands  the goals  in theory;                                                               
however, he is afraid that  in practical realities there are kids                                                               
who  are  condemned  to mediocrity  because  modifications  would                                                               
reduce expectations.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1700                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked again,  for clarification, if an IEP                                                               
team could require a lower score.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON stated  that to  be fair  to the  special-                                                               
education students, the  test shouldn't be made  easier for them.                                                               
If the standards are  kept the same, then it is  up to the school                                                               
to work extra  hard to bring [the  special-education] students up                                                               
to their highest level.  By  lowering [the score], it is allowing                                                               
the schools to say that they don't  have to work as hard to bring                                                               
those  students up  because  they only  have to  be  at a  [lower                                                               
level].   She said it  is important to  be fair to  two different                                                               
sets  of students:    the  students who  have  to  pass the  test                                                               
without accommodations and the special-education students.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE remarked that he has  heard this from many parents of                                                               
special-needs children.   They want the standards  kept high, and                                                               
they want their children brought  up to the standards; they don't                                                               
want  the standards  lowered to  their children.   He  added that                                                               
this  puts  pressure  on  the   schools,  the  parents,  and  the                                                               
students.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON stated  that it is necessary  to be careful                                                               
with the amount of changes to the test that are allowed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  responded that the law  is very clear -  it requires                                                               
accommodations.  He  remarked that he is  concerned with allowing                                                               
modifications.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1858                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked, if  students go through high school                                                               
with an  IEP and move  from secondary education  to postsecondary                                                               
education,  whether  they are  still  working  off an  individual                                                               
education plan.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY  answered that  most postsecondary  universities have                                                               
programs  for students  with  disabilities,  which could  include                                                               
modifications or accommodations in the classroom.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  asked  if this  would  be  substantially                                                               
similar to an IEP.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY  responded that it would  not be, but that  he is not                                                               
as  familiar   with  postsecondary   education  as  he   is  with                                                               
secondary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  asked if  a postsecondary  education plan                                                               
would require a diploma.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY  answered that  he would think  so, depending  on the                                                               
postsecondary  institution.   He  added that  most trade  schools                                                               
require  either  a  GED [general  equivalency  diploma]  or  high                                                               
school diploma.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  asked if [acceptance] would  not be based                                                               
on demonstrated ability, but on a diploma.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY replied that he  believes the diploma is the standard                                                               
that most  people would use.   He  added that most  people review                                                               
the high school transcripts in  order to see what the performance                                                               
level was when getting the diploma.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL   asked  if  the  transcript   level  was                                                               
sufficient  to demonstrate  competency  and  whether the  student                                                               
would be accepted, notwithstanding a diploma.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MALONEY  answered  that  he  is  not  aware  of  alternative                                                               
entrance requirements.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  explained  the  reason  for  asking  the                                                               
question.  He stated:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     We're trying to  get a diploma where  it says everybody                                                                    
     is the  same.  When  things are different,  they're not                                                                    
     the  same.   We have,  certainly, individual  education                                                                    
     plans that  deal with people with  disabilities; that's                                                                    
     called special  education.   There's certainly  a great                                                                    
     majority of those that could  probably get this diploma                                                                    
     in competency  testing, but there  ... are going  to be                                                                    
     some that can't.   There's a significant dissimilarity,                                                                    
     and we're  trying to  fit them  into this  diploma. ...                                                                    
     I'm just wondering  if trying to get them  a diploma is                                                                    
     so important as really trying  to find out what they're                                                                    
     capable of doing.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2020                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  stated his  understanding that  Representative Dyson                                                               
has  the opinion  that the  lack of  a diploma  has virtually  no                                                               
impact on one's total life.   He noted that all of the University                                                               
of  Alaska branches  have open  admissions; one  does not  need a                                                               
diploma.  He  stated that the irony for students  who aren't able                                                               
to  get  [an  Alaskan] diploma  is  that  in  order  to go  to  a                                                               
university  or   college,  one  must   take  a   placement  test.                                                               
Therefore,  those students  will have  challenges.   He said  the                                                               
remediation  at  college  is non-credit,  costly,  and  not  very                                                               
successful.   He  added that  from his  observation "we"  want to                                                               
make  everybody equal,  but obviously  we can't  do that.   There                                                               
should be, he  said, a minimum standard for  everyone.  Hopefully                                                               
people will  go far beyond  that minimum, depending on  their own                                                               
ambition and abilities.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     We're  looking at  some way  to make  special education                                                                    
     children  acceptable  in  society.    And  so  we  make                                                                    
     accommodations  for them  and then  we have  this thing                                                                    
     called  a diploma.    In society  there  are those  who                                                                    
     can't  attain  that degree  of  education  - they  just                                                                    
     can't learn that  - and there are those who  won't.  We                                                                    
     don't make  special dispensations for those  who won't;                                                                    
     they can,  they just  decide not  to.   But now  we are                                                                    
     trying to  force-feed those who  can't, in  saying that                                                                    
     because of doing this, or  that, or lowering standards,                                                                    
     or  making special  dispensations,  they have  achieved                                                                    
     this, and  then they'll go  out and conquer  the world.                                                                    
     And I think  that does a tremendous  disservice to that                                                                    
     child.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I think  it is  far better  to say  that ...  there are                                                                    
     certain measures  as the education process  goes along.                                                                    
     They can't  spell.  Well,  then, they finally  learn to                                                                    
     spell,  and so  they've accomplished  that -  maybe far                                                                    
     below what's  necessary for the diploma,  but they have                                                                    
     accomplished  something.     Those  kinds  of  rewards,                                                                    
     certainly,  we all  think those  are  essential to  let                                                                    
     that  child  know  that  they  are  escalating  up  the                                                                    
     ladder.   But to ... now  say that you jumped  this bar                                                                    
     is a disservice  to them and society.  So  I think what                                                                    
     most  of  us are  saying  is  we shouldn't  change  the                                                                    
     standards  for them;  we should  make  every effort  to                                                                    
     make  them available  to accomplish  that.   But  don't                                                                    
     lower  the standards  because they  then  are going  to                                                                    
     have a false sense of accomplishment.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN asked  if this  is going  to fit  with what                                                               
[the EED] is working on as far as the state standards.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2179                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY responded  that he thinks everyone's goal  is to hold                                                               
kids  to high  standards  and to  ensure  that the  instructional                                                               
program is  standards-based.  He  stated that there  are students                                                               
with  disabilities who  are  not going  to pass  the  test.   The                                                               
tension  that comes  in, he  said, is  whether or  not kids  with                                                               
disabilities  are being  unfairly penalized  because they  have a                                                               
disability.  He stated that  he believes having a standards-based                                                               
curriculum  provided  in   their  instructional  programming  and                                                               
allowing  the  IEP teams  to  make  determinations based  on  the                                                               
instructional program can help maintain those standards.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN shared that as  a freshman in high school he                                                               
became  disabled.   He stated  that  he had  wanted to  be a  jet                                                               
pilot.   He asked if he  should have been allowed,  since he lost                                                               
his  right eye,  to have  been given  a different  test than  the                                                               
other pilots.   He also asked if the focus  for special education                                                               
should be on an area in which they can succeed.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY replied  that "we" want what's best for  the kids and                                                               
to give them every opportunity to fulfill their potential.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON  remarked that  [Version B]  indicates eight                                                               
or  nine different  reports that  the [EED]  should get  from the                                                               
individual schools and then give to  the legislature.  He said it                                                               
seemed to him that they came in  two broad categories.  One is in                                                               
the reports that  demonstrate what's going on  with the children,                                                               
and the other  one is the work that the  school district is doing                                                               
in  a remedial  fashion.   He asked  if [the  EED] would  get any                                                               
useful information from the second category.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2328                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON responded that he  thinks times are changing and that                                                               
school  districts  recognize the  need  for  accountability.   To                                                               
date, he said,  there hasn't been a lot of  accountability.  [The                                                               
EED] gives the  money to the local level and  says, "Do good work                                                               
with the young  people."  He stated that he  thinks there will be                                                               
improvement in  the districts in  providing evidence for  each of                                                               
the required reporting pieces.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-21, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0070                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated that it  is his understanding under the Senate                                                               
version  that a  person with  an IEP  can get  a diploma  without                                                               
passing the competency test.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON remarked that he was correct.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated  that under existing regulations  if a student                                                               
is under  an IEP and still  doesn't complete all of  the existing                                                               
requirements,  he or  she is  denied  a diploma.   Therefore,  he                                                               
said,  under the  new  [Version  B], if  a  student  with an  IEP                                                               
doesn't  complete all  of the  requirements,  that student  could                                                               
also be denied a diploma.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MALONEY remarked that this is his understanding as well.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0171                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  made a motion  to adopt Amendment  1, which                                                               
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     (c)  A  student shall  receive  an  endorsement on  the                                                                    
     student's diploma and  transcript identifying the areas                                                                    
     of the examination successfully passed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     (2) A student who is a  child with a disability and who                                                                    
     does  not achieve  a passing  score on  the examination                                                                    
     required  under  (a) of  this  section  is eligible  to                                                                    
     receive   a  diploma   if   the  student   successfully                                                                    
     completes  an alternative  assessment program  required                                                                    
     by  the student's  individualized education  program or                                                                    
     required  in  the  education  plan  developed  for  the                                                                    
     student under 29  USC 794 that conforms  to the maximum                                                                    
     extent   practicable   with   the   state   performance                                                                    
     standards  on the  competency exam  established by  the                                                                    
     board; and                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     (3)  The  department   shall  by  regulation  establish                                                                    
     "alternative assessment program"  and uniform standards                                                                    
     and  processes in  creating  an alternative  assessment                                                                    
     program.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  stated that she thought  it was appropriate                                                               
to offer  an amendment that is  similar to the Senate  version in                                                               
order to  make a conscious  decision about what approach  to take                                                               
with children with disabilities.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE objected.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  explained that she thought  [the committee]                                                               
might have overlooked  that every child with  a disability should                                                               
be required to take the examination.   The other problem she said                                                               
she had with the House version  is that having portfolios puts in                                                               
statute something  that is very  narrow, instead of  allowing the                                                               
regulation  process  to  define what  an  alternative  assessment                                                               
program  is.   She  added that  there may,  over  time, be  other                                                               
assessments that  are meaningful and appropriate.   She clarified                                                               
that her amendment does two  things regarding the Senate version.                                                               
She said she  kept the broad language that the  IEP can determine                                                               
alternative assessment  programs and  added the sideboard   "that                                                               
conforms  to  the  maximum  extent  practicable  with  the  state                                                               
performance standards  on the competency exam  established by the                                                               
board".   She explained  the reason  for that  is because  of the                                                               
concern regarding the broad range of students with disabilities.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS stated that the goal  is to get all of these                                                               
children  up to  the competency  standards, and  that she  didn't                                                               
feel the Senate bill's language  was strong enough.  She remarked                                                               
that there  is a group  of students  being discussed who  are not                                                               
going to [reach the standard].   The discussion is whether or not                                                               
a  diploma should  be given  to those  students because  they can                                                               
reach a  high standard at  a lower rate.   On the flip  side, she                                                               
asked, "Should students  be denied a diploma who  really have met                                                               
the highest  standard that  they could have  met?"   Finally, she                                                               
explained that  the third  part of her  amendment would  put into                                                               
regulation what an alternative assessment program is.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  stated that  in response to  his objection  he would                                                               
ask, "What does  a diploma mean?  Does it  mean someone has basic                                                               
literacy?"   He said as he  reads the amendment, people  would be                                                               
given a diploma  indicating they have a basic  literacy when they                                                               
do not.   He added that while  his goal is not to  make life more                                                               
difficult  for students,  he  doesn't think  it  makes life  more                                                               
simple for them  if they receive a piece of  paper that says they                                                               
can read if they cannot.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  responded that  the Senate version  in some                                                               
ways  shifts that  discussion  to the  endorsements.   A  student                                                               
would not receive  an endorsement even though he or  she may have                                                               
received a diploma.  She stated  that employers may be trained to                                                               
ask  about the  endorsements.   For  example, a  person could  be                                                               
applying  for  a job  for  which  reading  is not  a  significant                                                               
portion of the job.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0678                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS stated  that he  supports the  amendment;                                                               
however, he is  concerned that continuing with  [Version B] might                                                               
disallow  the majority  of special-education  students from  ever                                                               
getting a diploma.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  asked, if  a child does  not get  a diploma                                                               
because  of a  disability, whether  a prospective  employer would                                                               
better   know   what   a   person's   limitations   are   through                                                               
certification.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS responded  that in  either case,  employers                                                               
are going to  be retrained.  Either they will  have to understand                                                               
what a certificate  of achievement means or they  will have known                                                               
what the endorsements on a diploma  mean.  She stated that if the                                                               
employer  knows that  these endorsements  exist, then  he or  she                                                               
should ask  [to see them].   The  purpose of this  amendment, she                                                               
stated, relates to whether or  not children with disabilities are                                                               
being treated unfairly.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE  stated that  in order  to pass  the reading                                                               
test, a  person has  to be able  to read.   However, in  order to                                                               
pass, the  person must also be  able to understand.   He remarked                                                               
that there  are times  when a student  may have  trouble reading,                                                               
but once  the questions are read  to him or her,  the student has                                                               
comprehension and  retention.    He stated that  employers should                                                               
know this as well.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1012                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated  that he has worked in  special education, and                                                               
the  classes were  divided into  groups.   He said  the students,                                                               
very  quickly, knew  who the  slow students  were.   He explained                                                               
that a diploma without endorsements  would be a special-education                                                               
diploma.  He  reminded the committee that parents  have said that                                                               
they  don't want  the standards  brought down  to their  special-                                                               
needs  children;  they want  their  children  brought up  to  the                                                               
standards.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON stated that  she doesn't think there should                                                               
adjustments  so  that  every  special-education  student  gets  a                                                               
diploma,  because there  are  going to  be kids  who  are not  in                                                               
special education and are not going  to get a diploma.  She asked                                                               
how  fair it  is  for  everyone in  special  education  to get  a                                                               
diploma while some of the other kids will not.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS responded that she  was correct.  She stated                                                               
that the  IEP team might set  standards and the child  won't meet                                                               
those  standards or  get  a  diploma.   She  clarified that  this                                                               
doesn't guarantee that  every child with a disability  will get a                                                               
diploma.  She  added that she agrees with Chair  Bunde that every                                                               
parent with a child with a  disability wants their child to reach                                                               
the  same standards  as everyone  else.   However, she  said, the                                                               
question hasn't  been asked whether parents  whose children can't                                                               
reach the standard want their children to be denied a diploma.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1150                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was  taken of  House  Special  Committee  on                                                               
Education  members.   Representatives Stevens,  Joule, and  Guess                                                               
voted  in  favor of  the  Amendment  1.   Representatives  Green,                                                               
Wilson, and Bunde voted against it.  [Representative Porter was                                                                 
absent.]  Therefore, Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 3-3.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[SB 133 was held over in the House Special Committee on                                                                         
Education.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The joint meeting of the House Special Committee on Education                                                                   
and the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing                                                                    
Committee was recessed at 10:00 a.m. to a call of the chair.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                

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